Ninety-three-year-old Islamic scholar and author, Muhammad Al-Talbi, insists that Islamists and preachers are promoting misconceptions about Islam. He has angered some hard-line Islamists by maintaining that prostitution is not a sin, homosexuality is not prohibited in the Koran and that Islam is not limited to women wearing veils, punishment by stoning and carrying out the Hadd (prohibitions outlined in the Koran).
Ninety-three-year-old Islamic scholar and author, Muhammad Al-Talbi, insists that Islamists and preachers are promoting misconceptions about Islam. He has angered some hard-line Islamists by maintaining that prostitution is not a sin, homosexuality is not prohibited in the Koran and that Islam is not limited to women wearing veils, punishment by stoning and carrying out the Hadd (prohibitions outlined in the Koran).
Al-Talbi holds a doctorate from the Sorbonne and served as the first dean of the Faculty of Arts and Humanities at the University of Tunis in 1955. He served as president of the National Cultural Committee and was a member of the pre-revolutionary NGO National Council for Liberties in Tunisia.
His books, ’Pleading for Contemporary Islam’ (released in Paris in 1998), ‘Cosmic Koran’ (2002) and ‘A Free Thinker in Islam’ (Paris, 2002) have garnered both acclaim and controversy.
MuhammadAal-Talbi, you are an Islamic scholar and you have published many studies on the Holy Koran and the Sunna. However, you have called for a sexual revolution and advised people to walk around naked. Are you trying to challenge Islamists?
I called for a sexual revolution because I studied the Koran and the Sunna and I didn’t find one single text in the Koran which forbids nudity. Moreover, the Koran assigns no punishment to women who do not wear the veil.
I believe that Islamists and preachers are promoting misconceptions about Islam based on extremism and intolerance instead of relying on the correct understanding and interpretation of the Koranic text. Moreover, there is a deliberate mixing-up of concepts in order to achieve political gains. This has tarnished the image of the Islamic religion.
You said that prostitution is not forbidden in Islam and you also said that unmarried women can have sex without being punished although the Koran has forbidden it and punished the adulterer and the adulteress with the Jald (flogging). How did you come to this interpretation?
Prostitution is not prohibited. Unmarried women can work as prostitutes. They are true Muslims and they should be respected. The Koran says: “But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity.” Thus forcing girls to prostitution is prohibited, not prostitution itself.
A married man can have a sexual relationship with a prostitute. This is not considered an act of adultery rather a sexual act with “those whom your right hands possess.” It is halal and the act is lawful.
In the era of the Prophet, peace be upon him, prostitutes used to walk in the streets and the prophet did not punish any of them. Can we be keener about religion than the Prophet Muhammad himself?
Regarding the flogging punishment of the adulteress and the adulterer, this only applies to married people. In Islam, adultery shall be proven if four eye-witnesses say that they saw the full sexual act. I do not think that a person who wants to have sex will ask four witnesses to come, watch and prove that the act has taken place. Thus, one of the most important pillars of conviction is missing and therefore the condition for punishment does not exist.
But there are those who apply the stoning limit on those who have a sexual relationship outside of marriage?
The Koran punishes the adulterer and the adulteress by flogging if the crime is proven. There is no verse in the Koran which speaks about stoning. Stoning is the ugliest punishment passed by lawmakers and it is stated in the Torah, but it has nothing to do with Islam. The application of this limit is an exaggeration and it tarnishes the image of Islam for reasons I consider political in the first place.
With these interpretations you are encouraging adultery and extramarital relations. Is this true?
I am an Islamic scholar. I only interpret the Koranic text and explain it. I do not encourage any act, because every human being is free in his sexual life. However, we in Muslim societies, suffer from the wrong understanding of the relationship between religion and sex, despite the fact that the Koran has interpreted it and set its limits in a very clear manner.
One of your controversial statements is that you also said that homosexuality is not a taboo. This has made the Salafis call for the shedding of your blood.
I did not say that it is halal (allowed). I said that there is no single verse in the Koran prohibiting homosexuality, especially between men. The only verse in the Koran is about Lut’s people. His almighty God spoke about shameful deeds but did not list sexual relations between men as one of them. Here, I want to return to the wrong interpretation and understanding of Islam or the deliberate wrong interpretation and understanding of Islam in order to allow the shedding of my blood. This behavior is not strange for religious extremists. Regardless of what they say, I will continue to defend my opinions, my beliefs and my own convictions until the last moment of my life because I have spent my life studying Islam and I am more of a Muslim than they are.
Where do you stand regarding the protest movement launched by the brothel workers in front of the National Constituent Assembly (NCA) building in March, 2014, knowing that these protests have stirred up so much controversy in Tunisian society?
The workers of the brothel are Tunisians Muslim women and they enjoy their full civil rights. Their protest is legitimate because they are practicing prostitution within the framework of the law like any other employee in the state apparatus. The law guarantees them the right to protest and defend their moral and material interests. The NCA and the state in general should protect their rights in the same way they protect the rights of other state employees.
I consider that the condemnation of society of the protests launched by these women in front of the NCA only reflects the social difficulties which we suffer from in our relation with sex and the body. Most of the men have had at least one sexual experience in brothels. Moreover, there are men who frequently visit these places but they do not have the courage to say this publicly. This is why I called for a sexual revolution in order to free ourselves from all these problems.
Muhammad al-Talbi didn’t join any political party. Why did you decide at this age (93 years) to join the Nidaa Tounes (Call for Tunisia) movement?
It was the first time that I joined a political party because I felt that Tunisia is threatened by the danger of a religious dictatorship. This requires concentrated efforts by all civil and democratic forces to confront this dictatorship, which is seeking to change Tunisian society with a history that dates back 3000 and threatens to bring us hundreds of years backwards.
Do you expect the return of the Islamists to power in the next election? In your opinion what will be the fate of those who you describe as extremists in Tunisia?
Tunisia will not go backwards despite all the threats around us. The Ennahda Movement has entered a phase of fragmentation and it is no longer a source of great danger, although it can be present in the political scene in the future after reconsidering its rhetoric and policy in order to preserve its popularity. Most probably, the Ennahda Movement has learned the lesson of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
In your opinion, does this mean that the Ennahda Movement will abandon its religious authority and become a civil party?
The Ennahda Movement has revised its rhetoric on more than one occasion and it is trying to review its policy. It has explicitly announced that it is against terrorism and that it denounces the Salafis, although in the beginning it used to flirt with them and to protect them because it knows that the Tunisian environment is not prepared for terrorism and it will not become prepared for it. I think that terrorist groups will soon diminish even if they were a source of concern at some point.
In Tunisia there is no place for terrorism, not today and not in the future. The takfir battle has ended and it didn’t have any big impact on us. In Tunisia, we do not have the kind of education that produces takfir and Sharia courts.
You say that you receive many threats of assassination because of your statements. Aren’t you afraid that one of those who are threatening you might actually kill you?
At my age, I am not afraid of their threats. I will continue to pursue my mission of renewing the Islamic thought. I have formed an association for this purpose because the Islam which I am defending is the religion that responds to the needs of real Muslims and modern Muslims. Islam is a religion of worship, piety and morality and not a religion of veils, stoning and carrying out the Hadd.
