In the second part of Correspondents’ interview with Koert Debeuf, representative of Alliance for Liberals and Democrats for Europe in the European Union Parliament, explains how democracy has been threatened with the recent political isolation law.  He further explains how Mahmoud Jibril is an unsung hero of Libya’s revolution and how democratic ideals must be upheld in realizing the goals of the revolution.

In the second part of Correspondents’ interview with Koert Debeuf, representative of Alliance for Liberals and Democrats for Europe in the European Union Parliament, explains how democracy has been threatened with the recent political isolation law.  He further explains how Mahmoud Jibril is an unsung hero of Libya’s revolution and how democratic ideals must be upheld in realizing the goals of the revolution.

Mr. Debeuf, do you think that the countries that supported Libyans to topple Gaddafi  regret what they did, due to the outcome of the situation after the revolution?

I don’t think so. They are all glad that this brutal dictator is gone. Of course, they had hoped for some more stability. But it is mainly the ones that were against the intervention that are now saying they were right. I think this is pretty short-term thinking.

Does the EU have any idea how to solve the problem of illegal immigration, which has increased since the revolution?

Solving the problem of immigration is very simple: invest in stability and dialogue in Libya. The EU should have invested in Libyan politics and security immediately after the revolution. Unfortunately, they left the country, as did the other actors. As a key factor in the ousting of Gaddafi they should have used this authority to clear some security problems. It was a big mistake not to do that.

If peacekeeping troops are necessary to enter Libya, do you think the international community is ready for such an action?

It is hard to predict the willingness of the international community right now. Most countries are focused on Syria instead. That is of course necessary, but it would be a mistake to neglect what needs to be done in Libya.

Some Libyans believe some armed militias are taking this beautiful revolution and the whole Libyan public hostage for their selfishness, ideologies and their own hidden agenda, do you agree?

I don’t know about their agenda, but I do know that threatening an elected parliament (GNC) to vote for a law is the opposite of what this Libyan revolution was about. This is against every basic principle of freedom and democracy. That’s why I find this very sad. They should realize that this is not the way to build a better Libya.

What do you think about the political isolation law and what do you think about some Libyan politicians, activists and MPs insisting that such a law has been applied in many countries like Germany and US?

In the US, the isolation law was complete madness and didn’t last long. Germany is a better example. The Allied Forces tried to implement an isolation law, which had the scale of the current Libyan one. The reality is that they scaled the law down, because they realized it was a burden on the reconstruction of the country. Instead, they focused on the ones who committed crimes instead. It was Konrad Adenauer, one of the founding fathers of the European Union who decided that all civil servants got back their job, except for the offenders. I also would like to say that Nazi Germany was an extermination machine with more people killed in concentration camps than the entire population of Libya. It is dangerous to compare both.

The same lesson we learned in Central and Eastern Europe and in the countries of former Yugoslavia, from where I just returned. If you want to reconstruct your country after a dictatorship you can’t work with a concept of collective guilt, because that is as unjust as was the system you’ve overthrown. You must bring the criminals and the offenders to justice and use the others to help the country rise again.

Do you think Qatar has its own agenda in Libya by supporting certain groups (Islamists) and using its own media to defame (Mahmoud Jibril) and his liberal National Forces Alliance (NFA)?

I don’t know about the agenda of Qatar. But if this is true, it’s wrong and sad. The international community should do everything to bring people together and not to divide them. What is needed now is dialogue, not defamation.

What I tried to make clear with my article is that it is wrong to attack people that played an important role in the revolution. I am focusing on Jibril, because I was there when it happened. But it applies to so many brave and courageous people who risked their life in order to make Libya a free and democratic country. Punishing these people now is not only a mistake, it is unjust.

Why do think the media campaign to attack Jibril, from the grand mufti of Libya accusing him and his party of atheism just on the day before the election, other TV channels, radio stations, newspapers following him step by step and blaming him and his party for all the problems happening in Libya?

Look, in an electoral campaign it is normal that one party attacks the other parties. But these attacks have to remain within the limits of decency. I met with many members of the National Forces Alliance. They were all practicing their religion and their prayers. I haven’t met one atheist among them. So this is a lie. If you attack a party, attack on the content and on their program, not with lies. If you want to be a democracy, you have to play along the democratic rules.

Do you think Jibril is able to lead the country to a safe place?

There are few people capable of leading Libya towards a better and safer future. Mahmoud Jibril is definitely one of them. What I appreciate about Jibril is that when he was in the European Parliament he didn’t talk about himself or his party. He didn’t accuse other parties. No, he only spoke about Libya and how the country needs dialogue in order to move forward.

I worked for five years as one of the main political advisors of the Prime Minister of Belgium. I have met with many prime ministers and Presidents around the world. The only ones who are capable of moving their country forwards are the ones that are uniting the country, not the ones that are trying to divide it.

The EU is not fully aware of what is going on in Libya; their mission in Libya does not have a media team and they are relying mainly on media associations owned or controlled by Islamists, which only write and broadcast selective information and news. Do you not think this will lead to negative consequences and wrong decisions made by the EU?

I don’t think the EU is unaware of how biased the media is in Libya. That’s not the problem from the EU side. The problem of the EU is a lack of strategy, rather than a lack of information. This lack of strategy is mainly due to the fact that the EU is in economic troubles and is putting all its efforts in solving them.

Is it true that you sent the translated article “The Untold Story of Mahmud Jibril” to two Libyan websites and they have not published it? Would you identify these two websites? We have seen the article on “libyablog” which is mainly for bloggers? Why did not you send it to the English-language Libyan newspapers such as the Tripoli Post and Libya Herald?

I sent my article to Libya-Al-Mostaqbal and to Libya Herald. None of them replied. I am glad Libyablog did.

In your opinion, does winning an election mean real democracy? If a winning party wants to impose a law that violates human rights, do you still call it a democracy? Does democracy have to be consistent with human rights?

Democracy is of course not just about elections. Democracy is basically a protection of liberties and minorities. It is a system that must protect the sheep from the wolves. In his book “Democracy in America” from 1835, Alexis de Tocqueville warns for “the dictatorship of the majority”. That is exactly the problem of what is happening now in Egypt, Turkey and Libya. It is not because you have a majority that you can impose your will onto the minority— certainly not on fundamental questions as human rights. This is essential. If you try to do that, you will get a second revolution like what we see on Taksim Square today.

 What do see for the future of Libya?

I am optimistic, because I believe in the Libyan people. Every transition after a revolution is difficult and confusing. But every time I was in Libya I saw so many honest people that I can only believe that the Libyan story will end well. The only question is how long this will take? The faster an honest dialogue between all parties starts, the faster Libya will get on track. That is what I have seen in all post-revolutionary countries. It is as simple as that.